$2000 Online league has one vacancy

[joshturin]

Rotisserians, the Norse Rotisserie League, which has been running for several years, has one opening. The Entry Fee is $2,000 (with a 97% return in prizes - the only expenses are a $500 Commish fee (our 2019 Commish is Mark Hodge) + $200 in Onroto stat service fees). This is a keeper league, including Farm players.

Format: Separate $260 Auctions in both AL & NL. Standings are based on your combined scores in each league.

Auction Date: Online (using Onroto's draft software) on Saturday, March 23.

The vacant roster ("team 12") is competitive.

If interested, please email me:

josh_75247@yahoo.com

[aikman72]

$500 commish fee?

[joshturin]

The league has filled. Good luck to everyone playing Roto in 2019. Josh

[joshturin]

Yes, in the serious ($2,000) leagues I'm in, the commish fee is $500. One of these leagues has run for 13 years. The payback in the Norse League (commished by Mark Hodge, a First Pitch attendee) is ~ 97%. Want to compare this to NFBC or other public leagues? The take in such leagues is substantial. For example, in the NFBC $1400 auction (15 teams, $1400 EF), they collect $21,000 (15 X $1400). They pay in $12,250 in league prizes. They also pay if you finish in the top 6 overall, which is obviously extremely unlikely. However, this admittedly slightly lowers the vig. But leaving this out of account, participants are only getting $12,500 of $21,000 in EF's back, so the effective rake is $8,500. Let's arbitrarily reduce this to $7,000 (to take the Overall prizes into consideration). So, that's ~ $14,000 return on $21,000 collected, an effective vig of 33%. It may be slightly lower than this.

I am NOT panning NFBC; Greg Ambrosius has done a great job of promoting fantasy baseball. However, if you play in public leagues, you are doing so for fun, not profit. No one can beat a rake that high.

Josh

[RAY@HQ]

While understanding that Josh is not panning NFBC, it's worth updating his post with current/correct info:

NFBC Main event entry fee: $1700 x 15 teams = $25500 collected per league
League prizes: 7000/3400/1700 = 12,100

And you absolutely cannot equate the overall prizes to vig. Overall prizes are still very much payouts. NFBC pays out top-15 overall (of ~525), not the top 6. They pay those top 15 a total of $275k.

At a basis of 35 leagues in the Main Event, that leaves us with:

892.5k in entry fees
423.5 in league prizes + 275k in overall prizes = 698.5k in total prizes paid
======
194k in "rake", which calcs to 21.7%

If you want to compete in leagues at similar price points to Josh's that don't have overall payouts, NFBC offers those too.... and the rakes are event lower (~13% for the $2500 "super" leagues, and going down from there to 10% or less at even higher price points).

Again, not debating the merits of NFBC vs. Josh's private leagues (which have been around a long time), but since Josh opened the door, I thought it only fair to get the NFBC data correct.

[joshturin]

Ray, thanks for correcting my calculations, which were quick & rough. I do note that the NFBC vig used to be higher & I commend Ambrosius & crew in lowering it over time. No doubt there is some tradeoff between vig & participation; obviously if a public league paid back only 50%, fewer people would play. Also, I have played in a # of NFBC leagues & they were very fairly administered.

I also acknowledge that if we play in private leagues, there's some risk of not getting paid. That risk with a public league, particularly NFBC is essentially 0. We try to have 2 owners with access to our accounts, in the event one of them gets sick, etc. I have run one of these leagues w/ a $2000 EF for 13 years & of course everyone gets paid & there's virtually no turnover.

Ron Shandler & I had a discussion of this a few years ago, with Ron saying initially that he wasn't in favor of high-$ leagues--that this is SUPPOSED to be a hobby. He did acknowledge, however, that there's nothing intrinsically wrong with playing Rotisserie for money. I actually know a couple of people who do this for a living (well, they are making most of their money on Fanball, etc.) but for most of us, including me, it is simply a VERY challenging hobby & BHQ remains far & away the best source for Roto information.

[mexipat]

I am NOT panning NFBC; Greg Ambrosius has done a great job of promoting fantasy baseball. However, if you play in public leagues, you are doing so for fun, not profit. No one can beat a rake that high.

Josh

I have no idea what the "rake" is on the NFBC Draft Champions but some of us do it for profit and fun. I (along with my partner jabline) have had three profitable seasons in a row and I know of other HQers who have made a lot of money than we have in that venue.

[joshturin]

I'm glad you like NFBC--I like it too. However, the results you posted above are only meaningful if you post all your results. How many leagues have you played in, in which you didn't cash? Also, whether you (or some others) have done well in public leagues doesn't gainsay the fact that, as Ray just posted, there is a 21.7% rake in the Main Event. Whatever you may have won in those formats, you would have done better with a 3% rake. So, outside of beating your chest, what's your point?

[RAY@HQ]

I think this discussion has run its course.