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What is "price enforcement" please?

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  • What is "price enforcement" please?

    In the 2022 Baseball Forecaster, there's a term - "price enforcement". What does it mean, please? Thanks.

  • #2
    Price enforcement is the practice of bidding a player up if it appears they will be had for 'undervalue' even though you don't want to roster the player. The belief is that the other party(ies) will continue bidding until somewhere near the expected value. The challenge of course is that every team manager can have a different view of what a player's value is....which can make price enforcing a tricky game.
    "The problem with quotes found on the internet is that it is nearly impossible to verify the source." - Abraham Lincoln

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    • #3
      A tricky game meaning, if the other owner drops out and you end up getting stuck with the player you don't want simply because you are bidding up the price, it can ruin a draft. I'm not so sure it's so easy to price enforce in these days of online auctions, as in a live draft you can see and feel out the person you are enforcing, much like in poker.

      A related topic is "crickets," where you bid say $1 on a player to offload him on someone else, but then no one else bids, and silence emerges, only the sound of crickets, and you are stuck with the player. It's the same sound of nothingness and emptiness when you price enforce and the other owner drops out, leaving you with a player and salary that you don't want, but are now stuck with.

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      • #4
        Thank you bankerboy and Whistler. That's very helpful information. And much appreciated.

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        • #5
          if you are confident in prices listed for your league parameters - say, with HQ numbers - then as a price-enforcer you would be willing to pay up to the full uninflated price of any player (in the early stages; later you run into positional and budgeting issues).

          so if a pitcher lists for $22, and the bidding fades around $18, you go $19. if he doesn't interest you, then you hope you goose the pot and he climbs above $22. but if you land the guy at $19, you're fine with that, too, as with inflation you might expect him to go for $26 or $28 and maybe you have a bargain.

          I got a price-enforced Taijuan Walker for $10 in April and immediately wondered if he was hurt. was told after the auction that I did well.
          Walker paid out $23 in the first half of 2021 - and a negative $18 in a brutal and winless second half.
          NL 12-team 5x5 auction keeper. no bench, limited 'free' moves #oldschool
          our owners have a combined 292 years of experience in this 36-year-old league that is being cryogenically frozen until spring 2021.
          a redraft, no-transaction "race to the finish" served as our 2020 entertainment

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          • #6
            Originally posted by Whistler View Post
            A tricky game meaning, if the other owner drops out and you end up getting stuck with the player you don't want simply because you are bidding up the price, it can ruin a draft. I'm not so sure it's so easy to price enforce in these days of online auctions, as in a live draft you can see and feel out the person you are enforcing, much like in poker.
            Another big benefit of having in person drafts. Ability to read the room better.

            Slightly related - but when the owner (there's one in every league) starts a a superstar bid with $1, followed by $2, I'll usually get it to $30 or whatever is $5-ish dollars under value. Not really price enforcing as much as moving the auction along.

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            • #7
              about 5 years ago, we went 3-4 rounds before ANY player could be had at "book value" - even though I think I'm the only HQ subscriber in the league!
              of course, the overbids eventually mean something has to give.

              the hardest part comes when you don't want a guy at any price, yet he is listed at, say, $12. you know you won't pay close to $12 - but what if bids dwindles at, say, $4 or $5?
              another tough one was like last year, when I loved Swanson but didn't want to use my UT slot up so early in the auction. hoped he would go elsewhere for more than $20, but I heard "going twice" at $14 and - couldn't pull the trigger. immediate hedger's remorse on that one.
              NL 12-team 5x5 auction keeper. no bench, limited 'free' moves #oldschool
              our owners have a combined 292 years of experience in this 36-year-old league that is being cryogenically frozen until spring 2021.
              a redraft, no-transaction "race to the finish" served as our 2020 entertainment

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              • #8
                Originally posted by Howie M View Post
                so if a pitcher lists for $22, and the bidding fades around $18, you go $19. if he doesn't interest you, then you hope you goose the pot and he climbs above $22. but if you land the guy at $19, you're fine with that, too, as with inflation you might expect him to go for $26 or $28 and maybe you have a bargain.
                If you're fine with everyone else passing when you bit $19, I wouldn't call that price enforcement. Like bankerboy and Whistler, I would call it price enforcement if one bids higher than one otherwise would bid in the belief that you are driving higher the price that someone else will pay.

                "It was grand, to be in control. I felt like I was the baddest lion in the valley." -- J.R. Richard

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                • #9
                  I used to price enforce with one owner all the time. He loved rookies and prospects and won the league one time 15 years ago with that strategy as a bunch of his drafted rookies/prospects all had surprisingly amazing years. It was easy to bid him up after we picked up on his consistent strategy and he always seemed to go the extra buck, especially when it was me bidding. We had a friendlyish rivalry.

                  I also got stuck with Taijuan Walker last year bidding up an owner that I knew loved him. He hit his max price and there I was. An enjoyable first half and his contribution to my second half fade was palpable.
                  Home league: 11 team mixed 6X6 (with OPS and holds) 19th year, 2016: 4th, 2017: 3rd, 2018: 9th, 2019: 1st, 2020: 3rd, 2021: 2nd
                  AL only league: 8 teams 5X5, 9th year, 2016: 2nd, 2017: 3rd, 2018: 4th, 2019: 1st, 2020: 8th, 2021: 4th
                  NL only league: 10 teams 5X5, 9th year, 2016: 1st, 2017: 1st, 2018: 3rd, 2019: 2nd, 2020: 8th, 2021: 4th

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Michael@HQ View Post
                    If you're fine with everyone else passing when you bit $19, I wouldn't call that price enforcement. Like bankerboy and Whistler, I would call it price enforcement if one bids higher than one otherwise would bid in the belief that you are driving higher the price that someone else will pay.
                    Well, of course everyone will have a different spot where they'll stop. Tho not exactly price enforcement, I remember way back reading somewhere--probably the Forecaster--that a reasonable thing to do is bid up to about 75% of what you have a player is valued at. If you end up with him, you get him at a value. If not, you at least got his price up to a reasonable level.

                    And it keeps you involved. I've also read that you should never bid on a player unless you'd be happy to roster him. I don't follow that advice, as I don't want my league mates knowing which players I truly want to roster. So the "bidding to 75%" idea seems reasonable to me.

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by SteveL View Post

                      Well, of course everyone will have a different spot where they'll stop. Tho not exactly price enforcement, I remember way back reading somewhere--probably the Forecaster--that a reasonable thing to do is bid up to about 75% of what you have a player is valued at. If you end up with him, you get him at a value. If not, you at least got his price up to a reasonable level.

                      And it keeps you involved. I've also read that you should never bid on a player unless you'd be happy to roster him. I don't follow that advice, as I don't want my league mates knowing which players I truly want to roster. So the "bidding to 75%" idea seems reasonable to me.
                      May have been the Forecaster. However when John Benson was doing rotisserie books decades ago (OK, it was the 90's, decades ago fits but sure makes me feel my age) the 70-85% bid was one of his core principles. He had some math behind it in terms of profit x likelihood of realizing said profit and branded it "optimal bidding".

                      Back to enforcing, agree that enforcing involves basically bidding up a guy you don't want to make sure a competitor does not acquire them too cheaply. Usually but not always bowing out at or below your calculated value.

                      Or sometimes, in the end game, if it is clear a manager has a player that is a perfect fit, you might want to make sure they spend their entire $7 on them versus getting a $1 lottery ticket.
                      Last edited by usualsuspects; 01-05-2022, 12:40 PM.
                      http://youtu.be/YtpkrIS4Sig?hd=1

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                      • #12
                        John Benson recommended stopping at 80% of player's value but I never walked out of auction with a competitive team with 80% strategy

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by SteveL View Post

                          Well, of course everyone will have a different spot where they'll stop. Tho not exactly price enforcement, I remember way back reading somewhere--probably the Forecaster--that a reasonable thing to do is bid up to about 75% of what you have a player is valued at. If you end up with him, you get him at a value. If not, you at least got his price up to a reasonable level.

                          And it keeps you involved. I've also read that you should never bid on a player unless you'd be happy to roster him. I don't follow that advice, as I don't want my league mates knowing which players I truly want to roster. So the "bidding to 75%" idea seems reasonable to me.
                          It is actually much more fun to be involved on most players. I used to not bid on guys I had little interest in rostering when I first started auction drafting, but that let others know who I liked and was generally boring sitting there waiting for players to get bid up. So to not show any bias and keep my focus, I bid on everybody these days.
                          Home league: 11 team mixed 6X6 (with OPS and holds) 19th year, 2016: 4th, 2017: 3rd, 2018: 9th, 2019: 1st, 2020: 3rd, 2021: 2nd
                          AL only league: 8 teams 5X5, 9th year, 2016: 2nd, 2017: 3rd, 2018: 4th, 2019: 1st, 2020: 8th, 2021: 4th
                          NL only league: 10 teams 5X5, 9th year, 2016: 1st, 2017: 1st, 2018: 3rd, 2019: 2nd, 2020: 8th, 2021: 4th

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by bowi8son View Post
                            John Benson recommended stopping at 80% of player's value but I never walked out of auction with a competitive team with 80% strategy
                            Hear! Hear!

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                            • #15
                              Benson! There's a blast from the past!!

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