Holds

[nyc1fxc]

Why doesn't HQ spend much time and effort on Holds?

Where can I get information on some good releivers who are a source of holds?

[PHIL@HQ]

The short answer is that holds are not very reflective of any skill or value. It's basically a writers' creation that has been latched on to by a few fantasy leagues. For example, pitcher comes into the game with a four-run lead, walks two batters, and is then removed from the game. Bingo, a hold!

FWIW, if you want holds, you should look for setup men on winning teams. I'd also look at pitchers with LIMA grades B or higher. You can find the LIMA grades in the Baseball Forecaster or on each pitcher's page in the Player Link Data Base: http://www.baseballhq.com/subscribe/...ayerlink.shtml

[NICK@HQ]

Re: Holds

Originally posted by nyc1fxc
Why doesn't HQ spend much time and effort on Holds?

Where can I get information on some good releivers who are a source of holds?

Right here:

My earlier post

[dmahlan]

Originally posted by PHIL@HQ
The short answer is that holds are not very reflective of any skill or value. It's basically a writers' creation that has been latched on to by a few fantasy leagues. For example, pitcher comes into the game with a four-run lead, walks two batters, and is then removed from the game. Bingo, a hold!

Hi Phil,
To be fair, a couple things should be pointed out:

Holds aren't a writer's creation - they were created by John Dewan of STATS, Inc and Baseball Info Solutions. Sure, I guess he could be considered a writer - in the same sense that Bill James or Ron Shander is a writer. But you used the term "writer's creation" to dismiss the stat in an almost derrogetory manner, which I'm not sure is fair to Dewan.

I don't know of a single league nor stat service that would count the scenario in your post as a Hold. While SportsTicker may list that as a Hold in their box scores, it would never show up in the pitcher's season totals. Almost universally (everywhere outside of SportsTicker's warped, self-defined reality), a pitcher needs to record an out in order to recieve credit for a Hold. The situation you describe, with the addition of one out being recorded, could just as easily apply to a Save. In fact, Holds are essentially Saves that do not include the final out of the game - that's basically the only difference in their definitions.

Holds are as reflective of skill as something like RBI (influenced to a great degree by opportunity) and about as reflective of value as a Save. Are they difficult to forecast? Apparently, but I'm not yet convinced it's impossible. If we can forecast RBI by looking at expected line-up position and team context (opportunity), why can't we come up with reasonable forecasts for Holds by looking at expected bullpen role and anticipated team performance?

Finally, based on the number of thread on these boards asking about Holds, I'd imagine that more than just a few fantasy leagues have "latched on" to them. I think they're used as a category to a much greater extent then you realize.

Sorry - I don't mean to come off as confrontational, and I certainly don't intend this as an attack on you. But despite more and more leagues adopting Holds as a category (either on their own or in some combination with Saves), they seem to be dismissed much too frequently as being too bothersome to deal with (and not just by HQ).

And I should point out, that while your post did seem rather dismissive of Holds as a category, you did take the time and effort to give the original poster some tips on how to deal with the category, which you should definitely be applauded for.

David

[PHIL@HQ]

David, fair points -- for the most part. I was not trying to be dismissive and am sorry I came off that way. And, I was not trying to defend saves as being a worthwhile statistic. Indeed, I agree that saves are quite artificial in many cases. I suspect, however, that saves in some shape or form will be counted in the vast majority of fantasy leagues. Phil

[nyc1fxc]

HOLDS

Thanks for the response Nick, I agree that HOLDS are becoming more and more commonplace in leagues.

I think any projections on them will help!

[thethirddan]

Nice post dmahlan,

I too am a fan of using Holds in my leagues. I agree it's an arbitrary stat, much like saves, however I like that it makes middle relievers just a little more valuable and noticed.

I love baseballHQ, and would love to see them add holds to many areas of this site.