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Thread: HQ Forums Upgrade - July 2010

  1. #26
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    I think it would be productive for HQ, which thankfully encourages communication with its members, to address two things at this point.

    - Can we agree that the week of the trading deadline, in retrospect, was a really bad time to do this? The best customer service, to me, acknowledges errors. Yes, we all make them in our own lives. But the sooner a company admits the obvious, the better, imo.

    - A simplified technical explanation as to how it's not possible to be sure that the search function works before launching an "upgrade" (p.s., by any definition so far it's not an upgrade. Better to call it a 'revamp' or something so that if it at first causes more problems than it solves, there's no Orwellian language vibe going on). I'm not tech-savvy, so it will be easy to convince me, lol.

    I respect how frustrating changes can be when it's offered to what may seem to be an unpleasable audience.
    But we're also paying customers to what seems to be a very profitable business, so that's inevitably going to raise expectations.

    Thanks for the listen...
    NL 12-team 5x5 auction keeper. no bench, limited 'free' moves #oldschool
    our owners have a combined 292 years of experience in this 36-year-old league that is being cryogenically frozen until spring 2021.
    a redraft, no-transaction "race to the finish" served as our 2020 entertainment

  2. #27
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    Howie,

    We're obviously sorry for any inconvenience here, but really I think the negative impact has been minimal. Couple of things you need to understand:

    - vBulletin is a 3rd-party product, and we can't always just "leave well enough alone" as someone suggested, as there is a need to stay somewhat current with their newly-released versions to maintain our support, to pick up security fixes, etc.

    - the upgrade we applied was "broken" in the sense that they didn't tell us that it was going to force us to change the look and feel that we had already configured. That was an "undocumented feature" of this upgrade. That will happen from time to time, but it wasn't expected. If we knew fully what we were getting into here, we may very well have chosen to do it at a different time.

    My best technical explanation for you is that this isn't like rolling out an upgrade to MACK or Playerlink: we write those things ourselves, we test them, we support them, we know them inside and out. The forum software isn't homegrown. We pay someone for it... and as such, one of the things we're theoretically paying them for is that when we do an upgrade, "it's just supposed to work". We don't have a test forum to try an upgrade in first. We shouldn't need one. We've done many forum upgrades in the past, and you guys have never noticed. That's how it's supposed to go. Unfortunately, this time was a bit different.


    All that said, are you missing any trade deadline information as a result of this upgrade? The forum works the same way as it used to. It just looks a little different. We'll get the search function straightened out, that's obviously a big deal. The other items, like the indicator of where you were in the new posts string when you last visited, aren't as critical as the search, but we'll get those taken care of too.

  3. #28
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    Search is a BIG deal for me right now, in terms of the trade deadline, yes.

    I don't really know what I'm missing as a result of this (so far) downgrade.
    For instance, I was considered Heisey to replace my Victorino by noon tomorrow, but I don't know if there's been a recent post about Heisey's playing time possibilities here. I can't even find the Reds 2010 thread.

    Thanks for the response you were able to provide, though.

    I do think it would be help for HQ to make a clearer statement about negative impact on us as we near July 31.
    Seems obvious, so why not just address it front and center?
    NL 12-team 5x5 auction keeper. no bench, limited 'free' moves #oldschool
    our owners have a combined 292 years of experience in this 36-year-old league that is being cryogenically frozen until spring 2021.
    a redraft, no-transaction "race to the finish" served as our 2020 entertainment

  4. #29
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    While we're working on Search, you shouldn't need it to find recent content like the Reds team thread. Just go to the main forum page, find the MLB Teams subforum, the Reds thread is about 10 from the top. Took me all of four clicks to get there.

    Similarly, each subforum (AL, NL, Clubhouse, Roster Mgmt, etc) is sorted by date of most recent post, so you can always go into any of those and see what activity there's been in the past couple of days, without using Search.

  5. #30
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    "Took me all of four clicks to get there."

    Ray, that's several more than it used to take me.
    That's not an upgrade, obviously.
    I don't know which subforum BBHQFML's trashtalking thread was in.
    Before the downgrade, I didn't need to know.
    Now, I have to hope (I looked for it in several places, to no avail) that someone else posts there so I can find it again, and I guess write down a note next to my computer so that it doesn't take as long to find the next time.

    No offense, Ray, but acknowledging the obvious is a good thing. Not having a useful Search function the week of the trading deadline is a significant hassle.
    So there's no point in doing an "upgrade" at such a time, even if just on the tiny chance that the change isn't actually beneficial.

    Let's just agree that an elephant is in the room, and then we can move forward.
    It's tougher for everybody if anyone doesn't seem to notice the big fella....
    NL 12-team 5x5 auction keeper. no bench, limited 'free' moves #oldschool
    our owners have a combined 292 years of experience in this 36-year-old league that is being cryogenically frozen until spring 2021.
    a redraft, no-transaction "race to the finish" served as our 2020 entertainment

  6. #31
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    Howie, obviously we need to get the Search fixed. I think I was pretty clear in agreeing on that point. I was offering a temporary workaround

    HQFML is in the "HQ-sponsored subscriber leagues" forum, btw.

  7. #32
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    Some of this whining is out of control. Sorry you have to deal with it, Ray. HQ's handling of this petulance has been commendable.

  8. #33
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    Some of this whining is out of control. Sorry you have to deal with it, Ray. HQ's handling of this petulance has been commendable.
    HQ, would you prefer for us to keep our opinions to ourselves?

  9. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kevin View Post
    HQ, would you prefer for us to keep our opinions to ourselves?
    Of course not. Blast away, we can take it. Trust me, it wasn't our intent to have any of you notice this upgrade.

    I'm told the search index is rebuilding right now. I just tried a search, and more (but not all) of the most recent results are coming back. Looks like that problem should be fully addressed in the next hour or so.

  10. #35
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    Search should be back to normal now. Did not realize after the upgrade that the search reindex had not completed... just did another run of it.

    Did a search for "Heisey" and I see the recent threads now.

  11. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by MikeK@HQ View Post
    Search should be back to normal now. Did not realize after the upgrade that the search reindex had not completed... just did another run of it.

    Did a search for "Heisey" and I see the recent threads now.
    Yes, search seems to be back to normal now.

  12. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kevin View Post
    HQ, would you prefer for us to keep our opinions to ourselves?
    Because obviously there is no difference between stating one's opinion and petulantly whining over and over after HQ attempts to address the criticisms.

  13. #38
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    As long as it stays polite, I think it's a good way to help prioritize. Search is way more important to me than the font, so lots more pleas about Search, even repeated from one day to the next, will hopefully encourage HQ to move that to the head of the list. I appreciate that HQ is addressing the criticisms, but repeated, civil reminders about the things that are ruining the experience will probably help them address the criticisms in the proper order.

    One man's opinion, or another man's petulant whining

  14. #39
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    Side note: I don't know that I'd use Search as my sole means of navigating the Forums. It's one thing to use it to search for posts about a player, but if it's being used to find a favorite Forum to post in, there are more efficient ways to accomplish that.

  15. #40
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    Agreed.
    Mainly I go to "new posts since last visit," which I assume is coming back soon.
    And "search" just if I don't see anything on that player in the new threads.

    And I'll stick to constructive criticism as opposed to condescending insults about other posters; seems like the best way to go.
    NL 12-team 5x5 auction keeper. no bench, limited 'free' moves #oldschool
    our owners have a combined 292 years of experience in this 36-year-old league that is being cryogenically frozen until spring 2021.
    a redraft, no-transaction "race to the finish" served as our 2020 entertainment

  16. #41
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    "New posts" has been there all along, Howie. The only thing missing is the "break" between ones that have been updated since you last visited, and ones that haven't. Tech is looking at that.

    Note that the "What's new" tab also seems to do the same thing as "new posts".

  17. #42
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    Crossposting patioboater's comment from the other thread, so tech sees it:


    It might be nice if the "Subscribed Threads" link, which is currently on the list under "Quick Links" had its own button on that toolbar. That's the button I use most often when I finish reading a thread.

  18. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by RAY@HQ View Post
    Crossposting patioboater's comment from the other thread, so tech sees it:
    Thanks!
    2020 Teams: Pandemic Petrels - 15-team mixed redraft (HQ Forum Masters); plus teams in three 15-team, mixed, slow-draft-and-hold leagues: Patioboater's Puddle Ducks (winter draft); April Anatidae (April draft); Mayday Ducks (May draft.)

    Regal Beagles - 7-team AL keeper (I-96 League) on hold for 2020.

    3x Champion of the Forum Masters League, 2x Champion of the HQ Slow Draft League - Sic transit gloria mundi

  19. #44
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    Search looks as if it might still need some work. I just did a search on "Vargas" and the most recent post that came up was from May 2009.
    2020 Teams: Pandemic Petrels - 15-team mixed redraft (HQ Forum Masters); plus teams in three 15-team, mixed, slow-draft-and-hold leagues: Patioboater's Puddle Ducks (winter draft); April Anatidae (April draft); Mayday Ducks (May draft.)

    Regal Beagles - 7-team AL keeper (I-96 League) on hold for 2020.

    3x Champion of the Forum Masters League, 2x Champion of the HQ Slow Draft League - Sic transit gloria mundi

  20. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by makelele View Post
    Because obviously there is no difference between stating one's opinion and petulantly whining over and over after HQ attempts to address the criticisms.
    No one is petulantly whining here. We have an absolute right to state our objections to changes we don't like if we, indeed, don't like them. If you think they're fine -- that's okay too. I think HQ's decision to make this change at this time is worth discussing. I am not condeming you for taking pot shots and behaving like a addled cheerleader -- that's your choice. But I'd like you to stop complaining about other members - including me - voicing our opinion. Go look up "forum" and see if you can learn anything.
    "I've a good mind to join a club and beat you over the head with it."... Groucho

  21. #46
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    Guys, above all, this is a question of tone. So, on both sides! Knock off the sniping.

  22. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by RAY@HQ View Post
    Howie,

    We're obviously sorry for any inconvenience here, but really I think the negative impact has been minimal. Couple of things you need to understand:

    - vBulletin is a 3rd-party product, and we can't always just "leave well enough alone" as someone suggested, as there is a need to stay somewhat current with their newly-released versions to maintain our support, to pick up security fixes, etc.

    - the upgrade we applied was "broken" in the sense that they didn't tell us that it was going to force us to change the look and feel that we had already configured. That was an "undocumented feature" of this upgrade. That will happen from time to time, but it wasn't expected. If we knew fully what we were getting into here, we may very well have chosen to do it at a different time.

    My best technical explanation for you is that this isn't like rolling out an upgrade to MACK or Playerlink: we write those things ourselves, we test them, we support them, we know them inside and out. The forum software isn't homegrown. We pay someone for it... and as such, one of the things we're theoretically paying them for is that when we do an upgrade, "it's just supposed to work". We don't have a test forum to try an upgrade in first. We shouldn't need one. We've done many forum upgrades in the past, and you guys have never noticed. That's how it's supposed to go. Unfortunately, this time was a bit different.


    All that said, are you missing any trade deadline information as a result of this upgrade? The forum works the same way as it used to. It just looks a little different. We'll get the search function straightened out, that's obviously a big deal. The other items, like the indicator of where you were in the new posts string when you last visited, aren't as critical as the search, but we'll get those taken care of too.
    I can't imagine buying a third-party software upgrade for my business without testing it first. There is no way that a business would install a general ledger, inventory, email, or any other software upgrade without testing the hell out of it first. Granted, a forum software does not have the criticality as those other examples do...unless one of your business' selling points is the sharing of information and ideas via your forums as is the case with HQ.


  23. #48
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    Coupla questions ... I used to be able to ...
    1. Adjust font size and
    2. Use different fonts

    Are these features still available ?

    Additional comment ... the emoticons are undistinguishable. They looked better, before. Keep tweekin fellas. I'll be patient.
    Your continual efforts to improve all parts of the site ... even the Forums function, is appreciated.
    Think of how stupid the average person is, and realize half of them are stupider than that ... George Carlin

    1st Place ... 2010 HQFML & 2011 HQFML. Who says "lightning never strikes twice" ;-)

  24. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by TMac View Post
    Coupla questions ... I used to be able to ...
    1. Adjust font size and
    2. Use different fonts

    Are these features still available ?
    I don't recall if those were on the "Quick Reply" screen before, but you can still get to them and the other more advanced features by clicking the "Go Advanced" button on a reply. However, I think there used to be a button to take you to the advanced features directly, and I know the "Quote" function took you there first, whereas it now drops you into a "Quick Reply" screen.

    All in all, I think I preferred getting dropped into the Advanced Reply screen directly. I have a tendency to use some of the functions in there, and I like the bigger size.
    2020 Teams: Pandemic Petrels - 15-team mixed redraft (HQ Forum Masters); plus teams in three 15-team, mixed, slow-draft-and-hold leagues: Patioboater's Puddle Ducks (winter draft); April Anatidae (April draft); Mayday Ducks (May draft.)

    Regal Beagles - 7-team AL keeper (I-96 League) on hold for 2020.

    3x Champion of the Forum Masters League, 2x Champion of the HQ Slow Draft League - Sic transit gloria mundi

  25. #50
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    Here's a bit of weirdness I'm seeing today: thread titles don't seem to be appearing for about 75% of the threads in my "Subscribed Threads" list. Strange.
    2020 Teams: Pandemic Petrels - 15-team mixed redraft (HQ Forum Masters); plus teams in three 15-team, mixed, slow-draft-and-hold leagues: Patioboater's Puddle Ducks (winter draft); April Anatidae (April draft); Mayday Ducks (May draft.)

    Regal Beagles - 7-team AL keeper (I-96 League) on hold for 2020.

    3x Champion of the Forum Masters League, 2x Champion of the HQ Slow Draft League - Sic transit gloria mundi

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